Hellboy vs Batman
I was driving home from seeing Batman and realized that as much as I liked that movie, I did not feel as satisfied as I did when I saw Hell Boy II. I should mention that this compulsion to see comic book movies has my friends mystified and worried--but I think that movies should entertain as well as enlighten and educate.
Anyway, I liked Batman for several reasons, not the least of which is that it fulfills my dark vision of Batman as maybe a not-so-nice guy ("I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you"). I enjoyed the ethical dilemmas and questions raised in The Dark Night, and was particularly drawn to Aaron Eckhardt's shaded performance as Harvey Dent. Yes, Heath Ledger's no-hold's-barred Joker is receiving a great deal of much deserved notice, but it was really a one-note performance, albeit a fine portrayal of the total sociopath. Harvey Dent makes a longer and more interesting journey--and, as far as I am concerned, Batman's motives are never clear cut. But as much as I liked to movie, it left me strangely hungry for more.
There is a commonality between Hellboy and Batman in that they both address what happens when society appoints someone to act as a savior and then isn't thrilled with the outcome. But there is a humanness about Hellboy that I found lacking in Batman, which, when you think about it, is strange (Batman being a man and Hellboy being a red demon sent to destroy the Earth but who wants to be good).
But for me, here's how it stacks up:
I loved Ron Pearlman as Hellboy; who else can pull-off a one-liner while simultaneously saving babies and battling all manner of strange creatures? I like Christian Bale, I think he's a really fine actor, but his Batman lacks vulnerabilities and sometimes I simply could not understand what he was saying.
I liked Selma Blair as Liz a little more than I liked Maggie Gyllenhaal's Rachel Daws (or even Katie Holmes' Rachel)--but I found them both lacking but maybe that's because neither of them seemed committed to their men. In both cases, we had to wait an awfully long time for a decision that wasn't that compelling in the first place. And, frankly, there was very little chemistry between the two couples, although I don't know what I expect from a woman who bursts into flames and her horned red demon boyfriend.
Who had the best villains? Well, it's a draw. The Joker, who seemed to be seeking suicide by superhero, was more interesting that the Elf King seeking worldwide domination. On the other hand, with all those characters from Mos Eisley's Cantina, Hellboy's villains were more visually appealing. The sub-villains in Batman were predictable. I knew who the bad cops were from the get-go. Gary Oldman's Lt. James Gordon was properly serious and committed and kept the plot chugging along, just as Hellboy's Abe Sapian--and really, without them, there may have been a lot less movie.
The special effects in both films were spectacular, and, in the case of Hellboy, downright beautiful. Chicago looked wonderful in Batman, although it always cracks me up when they use Lower Wacker Drive for car chases (and annoys me when LWC is closed and I have to find another way home). But when Hellboy dispatches the killer beanstalk, well, it was remarkably beautiful and somehow touching.
And now we get back to central themes, with which I have no complaint. I think both movies addressed their subjects in a believable manner. I liked the writing in both, I liked the plot development in both, but somehow when Batman ended I felt unsatisfied and, after all these words, I don't know why, or if it even fair to compare Hellboy with Batman.
I'm sure other people have other ideas about these movies--so, fire away...
Anyway, I liked Batman for several reasons, not the least of which is that it fulfills my dark vision of Batman as maybe a not-so-nice guy ("I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you"). I enjoyed the ethical dilemmas and questions raised in The Dark Night, and was particularly drawn to Aaron Eckhardt's shaded performance as Harvey Dent. Yes, Heath Ledger's no-hold's-barred Joker is receiving a great deal of much deserved notice, but it was really a one-note performance, albeit a fine portrayal of the total sociopath. Harvey Dent makes a longer and more interesting journey--and, as far as I am concerned, Batman's motives are never clear cut. But as much as I liked to movie, it left me strangely hungry for more.
There is a commonality between Hellboy and Batman in that they both address what happens when society appoints someone to act as a savior and then isn't thrilled with the outcome. But there is a humanness about Hellboy that I found lacking in Batman, which, when you think about it, is strange (Batman being a man and Hellboy being a red demon sent to destroy the Earth but who wants to be good).
But for me, here's how it stacks up:
I loved Ron Pearlman as Hellboy; who else can pull-off a one-liner while simultaneously saving babies and battling all manner of strange creatures? I like Christian Bale, I think he's a really fine actor, but his Batman lacks vulnerabilities and sometimes I simply could not understand what he was saying.
I liked Selma Blair as Liz a little more than I liked Maggie Gyllenhaal's Rachel Daws (or even Katie Holmes' Rachel)--but I found them both lacking but maybe that's because neither of them seemed committed to their men. In both cases, we had to wait an awfully long time for a decision that wasn't that compelling in the first place. And, frankly, there was very little chemistry between the two couples, although I don't know what I expect from a woman who bursts into flames and her horned red demon boyfriend.
Who had the best villains? Well, it's a draw. The Joker, who seemed to be seeking suicide by superhero, was more interesting that the Elf King seeking worldwide domination. On the other hand, with all those characters from Mos Eisley's Cantina, Hellboy's villains were more visually appealing. The sub-villains in Batman were predictable. I knew who the bad cops were from the get-go. Gary Oldman's Lt. James Gordon was properly serious and committed and kept the plot chugging along, just as Hellboy's Abe Sapian--and really, without them, there may have been a lot less movie.
The special effects in both films were spectacular, and, in the case of Hellboy, downright beautiful. Chicago looked wonderful in Batman, although it always cracks me up when they use Lower Wacker Drive for car chases (and annoys me when LWC is closed and I have to find another way home). But when Hellboy dispatches the killer beanstalk, well, it was remarkably beautiful and somehow touching.
And now we get back to central themes, with which I have no complaint. I think both movies addressed their subjects in a believable manner. I liked the writing in both, I liked the plot development in both, but somehow when Batman ended I felt unsatisfied and, after all these words, I don't know why, or if it even fair to compare Hellboy with Batman.
I'm sure other people have other ideas about these movies--so, fire away...
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Spindaddydad on -
Dark Knight 5/5 Hellboy 2/5
Hellboy was too much of a good thing. I love del Toro's creatures but he should know that more often than not, less is more. Shame on him. In hellboy, it was like we were attending a make-up effects industry exposition. It was just one creature after another, after another. I remember in Pan's Labyrinth when we first saw the Pale Man baby-eater. It was like magic! In Hellboy, he wore out that magic with a never-ending parade of monsters. It was also a bit too much like a Summer blockbuster for me - made for the masses. I like his (del Toro's) more nuanced stuff better than his mainstream.
Now Dark Knight - damn near perfect. As much as I liked Nicholson's rendition of the Joker in the first film, Ledger's blows that away. Unfortunately Eckhart's turn as Two-face gets overlooked because of The Joker. If you can, watch Dark Knight on iMax. During the action scenes where Batman is perched atop buildings or flying through the city, or riding his batcycle, the screen opens up to fit the entire iMax screen, then during the dialogue scenes it closes back down to widescreen. Very cool!
Nolan got it right in this film and in Begins, in that Batman is shaped by his enemies. I also like that Batman really does have superpowers per se, his abilities come from the cool gadgets he makes.
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Permalink Reply by Moviebunny on -
Spindaddydad: I absolutely agree that Aaron Eckhardt's two-face is a better and more subtle villain that Heath Ledger's Joker, but Heath made the ultimate better career move by dying young before the film was released! Seriously, I understand what you are saying about too much of a good thing, but somehow it worked for me, maybe I am more into the fantasy than anything else.
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Permalink Reply by Spindaddydad on
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maybe I am more into the fantasy than anything else.
I think that is a defining statement as to our differences of preference. Sci-Fi/Fantasy is my kryptonite (other than 50s and 60s classic sci-fi). However I do really liked most of del Toro's previous stuff (especially Cronos and Labyrinth) and Batman was more of a crime drama than a Sci-Fi/fantasy.
Comic book to big screen adaptations don't really do much for me. The only 3 I've really liked are Spider-man 2, Iron Man and Dark Knight.
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Permalink Reply by Moviebunny on
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I tried Spiderman, but it didn't interest me and I was never into Superman, but I found Hellboy I by mistake and was absolutely sold--as for Batman, I was disappointed by Tim Burton's version because he didn't seem to get it and his Batman was not dark enough. So, was blown away when Batman says, (in one): "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you," at last a Batman that delivered the goods.
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Permalink Reply by Spindaddydad on
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I also like that Batman really does have superpowers per se,
should be DOESN'T have superpowers
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Permalink Reply by Moviebunny on
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I knew what you meant because I agree with it and that precisely why I always liked Batman better than the Super Heros--unlike them, he could die!
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Permalink Reply by ewd76 on -
but I think that movies should entertain as well as enlighten and educate
What is the last movie that you think actually did that?
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Permalink Reply by Moviebunny on
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Marie Antoinette, 1937, pretty to look at, remarkably accurate
The Golden Door, no misty-eyed happy immigrant saga here
Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, war is hell but being a war hero is worse
Gleiwitz Case, one country invades another country claiming that country meant the first country harm, when nothing could be further from the truth
Downfall and Blind Spot: Hitler's Secretary, Hitler on the skids
and while I found Philadelphia a predictable and bad story, it did make some people understand the HIV crisis
They are few and far between, but they are there
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Permalink Reply by Moviebunny on
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But there's always Hellboy
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